CHUCK TODD:
You used the word "smear." So for five years, and you were doing it to try to attack Hillary Clinton, does that mean for five years Donald Trump was perpetuating a smear? So if he was, why didn't Donald Trump apologize to the president? Why didn't Donald Trump apologize to the family of somebody who died in a plane crash where he tweeted out innuendo that this person somehow was involved in some cover-up with the birth certificate? If your campaign believes it's a smear, shouldn't Donald Trump apologize to the president? 
Smiling.  Relentless. Unshakable.
KELLYANNE CONWAY: 
We were reminding people where this started. It was used as a smear against Senator Obama by Clinton campaign associates. And by the way, not a bunch of summer interns who just got it all wrong and were a little bit too ambitious. These were chief strategists, pollsters, long-term confidence-- confidantes, who were pushing this. 
In 2007 and 2008, Chuck, Donald Trump wasn't running against Barack Obama for president. He wasn't smearing him about this. He was building buildings. He was being his successful self, a job creator. He was revitalizing communities. He was doing economic development everywhere that he had a new project. So let's be fair as to where-- I think it does matter. 
CHUCK TODD: 
Okay. 
KELLYANNE CONWAY: 
I respectfully disagree, it does matter where it started. 
CHUCK TODD: 
But Kellyanne, in-- in 2012, when he was thinking about running for president, he tweeted things like this: "An extremely credible source has called my office and told me that Barack Obama's birth certificate is a fraud." Also in 2012, "When I was 18, people called me Donald Trump. When he was 18, Barack Obama was Barry Soweto. Weird." Those are just a number of examples, when he was running for president, where he was bringing up this issue. So how can you just totally dismiss this as part of his political identity? 
KELLYANNE CONWAY: 
Chuck, I think the only people less obsessed about this are those still covering it. Mr. Trump made very clear, and we hardly get any kind of clarity from the Clinton campaign on very much. And he took to the podium and took maybe a minute or less to state three very crisp things. And now he's moved onto the issues people care about. I mean it just-- I have to say it's remarkable to me, to be out there with people and hear what they want covered, I'm looking at NBC's poll this morning, Chuck, and I don't see this issue anywhere in the top 40. So I mean top 20. 
CHUCK TODD: 
Well, look. 
KELLYANNE CONWAY:
Is what I see, and you know-- 
CHUCK TODD: 
I get what you're deflecting. And if I were in your shoes, I understand why you're deflecting. 
KELLYANNE CONWAY: 
I'm not deflecting. 
CHUCK TODD: 
You are deflecting. 
KELLYANNE CONWAY: 
But why-- 
CHUCK TODD: 
This was five years-- 
KELLYANNE CONWAY: 
You know -- 
CHUCK TODD: 
But hang on. This was five years of his political identity. And by the way, let me ask this. Now that he believes the president was born in the United States, I think he has made a $5 million charity offer or a $50 million charity offer. Is he going to pay up on that front? 
KELLYANNE CONWAY: 
You'd have to tell me the details of that before I can answer that question. However, I do have to say, I want to get back to the poll. 

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Indignant.  How dare you suggest Trump promoted birtherism?
Meanwhile, Rudy Giuliani does the same thing.  Conway smiles--she is the good, friendly cop--Giuliani is the bad cop.  Angry, accusatory, but equally committed to the story.  Giuliani never wavered.  He stuck to the talking points and he was indignant about it.   It was Hillary, not Trump, who promoted birtherism.   Watch. Chris Matthews is incredulous. Giuliani doesn't waver.
  
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Mike Pence is on board.   He infuriated Martha Raddatz of ABC News, but stuck to the story as she shook her head with incredulity.   Watch, or read the transcript below


RADDATZ:  .Do you think he should have promoted this birther issue for all these years? Was he wrong to do this?


PENCE: Our campaign just really isn’t focused on the past, Martha, and it really…
RADDATZ: Governor Pence, you said yourself Hillary Clinton is at fault. That’s going forward, that’s not just the past. He said Friday that Hillary Clinton and her campaign were at fault for this birther movement as well. And you just said it yourself,
What is the proof because we can’t find any. And fact-checkers have checked into that, that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement.
PENCE: Well, I just would refer you to news reports with the McClatchy News Service and reports of people in your industry, Martha, that…
RADDATZ:  The reports of people in my industry say there's no proof they can find that Hillary Clinton had anything to do with it.
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Summary:  Trump is re-positioning himself.   And he shows he can lead a team that sacrifices themselves on his behalf. The birtherism past weighs on him politically since it documents the former-Trump who appealed to a subset of Republicans, people particularly hostile to Obama, people eager to assume a conspiracy.  Trump needs to abandon expand his base.  The seed of doubt on Obama-the-fraud is planted and rooted.  He will not lose the hate-Obama vote, but he needs to go beyond it.  If his surrogates keep the memory alive and valid then Trump is exposed as dishonest.  His key surrogates needed to validate that the past was not merely "past", but that the past did not exist.  There was no Trump birther past.
The key takeaway to me is that Trump had the leadership and cohesion inside his campaign to have responsible people go out in public and do something very difficult and dangerous to their own reputations: stick to a story that serves their leader in the face of an insistent and incredulous questioner and videotape that flatly contradicts the story one is saying is true.   It is one thing to send people out to sell a controversial position.  It is a much harder thing to send people out to sell--hard and with you vouching for it--a position that is contradicted by evidence you see right in front of you. 



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Wait!  There's more.   If you have the time and interest to hear our podcast, Two Left Eyes, you will hear Thad Guyer and me talk about the fallout from the "deplorables" comment.