Wednesday, August 16, 2023

Not "free speech." Crimes.

"Whatabout Barbara Boxer after the 1994 presidential vote in Ohio!"
"Whatabout Al Gore after the 2000 presidential vote in Florida!"
"Whatabout Stacy Abrams after the 2018 Georgia governor's election!"
We are going to hear a lot about those in the months ahead.

They are not equivalent to what Trump did. 

Over the years some prominent Democrats have questioned the vote on elections. In making the case that Trump's prosecution is a "witch hunt," Republicans and their friendly media are asserting that what Trump did in the 2020 election was similar to what Democrats have done. Republicans criticized Democrats, but did not prosecute them. It is unfair! Trump is singled out!

Americans have a free speech right to protest the fairness of an election process and the accuracy of the vote count. There is a legal way to do this.

Barbara Boxer in the U.S. Senate and Tubbs Jones in the U.S. House challenged the electoral vote count in Ohio. Boxer said in a press conference:
This is my opening shot to be able to focus the light of truth on these terrible problems in the electoral system. While we have men and women dying to bring democracy abroad, we've got to make it the best it can be here at home, and that's why I'm doing this.

It was an hour of political theater. Presidential candidate John Kerry said he would not take part in the protest, saying:

Our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election.

Kerry, a sitting Senator, said that he would be introducing legislation to improve accountability and transparency in future elections.


In 2000 a series of problems involving incompletely detached "chads" from ballot punch cards made the vote count questionable in Florida. With a vote count margin of 537 votes out of almost six million, the rules on how to count and recount questionable ballots moved the winner back and forth between Al Gore and George Bush. The Supreme Court intervened and in a five to four vote, with justices following the party of the president that appointed them, decided a technical point in a way that gave the margin of victory to Bush. Al Gore announced that he would accept the decision of the Court.

In 2018 Democratic candidate Stacey Abrams lost a close election for Georgia governor to Brian Kemp, then the chief election official for the state. He had done a wholesale purge of 500,000 from the voter rolls, the largest cancellation of voter registrations in U.S. history, according to the Atlanta Constitution. The purge had a disparate effect on the electorate, causing more poor people, young people, and Blacks to be de-registered. Abrams conceded the election, saying 
I acknowledge that former Secretary of State Brian Kemp will be certified as the victor in the 2018 gubernatorial election.

She went on to say

But to watch an elected official who claims to represent the people in this state baldly pin his hopes for election on suppression of the people's democratic right to vote has been truly appalling.

Her response was to file a lawsuit in the courts and to set about registering the 800,000 new voters who were eligible to vote in the 2000 election.

The words and actions taken in these three instances were legal and reasonable. At the time Republicans accused the Democrats of being "sore losers" --  as Democrats now accuse Trump. But there is a giant difference between these three instances and what Trump and his allies have done.

Trump did not accept the evidence of audits and the adjudication of the courts. He ignores and denies their decisions. He went beyond the free speech right to protest. He took illegal actions by creating a conspiracy to defraud the United States.  As the House January 6 Committee and the Jack Smith and Georgia indictments outline, Trump orchestrated a multi-pronged plan. The group action included false statements proposed in a Department of Justice letter to state legislatures stating that the DoJ found evidence of fraud, pressure and threats on state officials to reverse the vote in their states, an attempt to solicit a false confession from an election worker, managing creation of fraudulent certificates of election in multiple states, and an effort to get the Vice President to discard valid electoral votes. Those fraudulent elector ballots stating that they were "duly elected" were not spontaneously created in the states by over-eager and hopeful partisans. They were part of a plan, coordinated at the highest levels in the White House. So was the effort to plant false information about the findings of the Department of Justice.  Acting deputy AG Richard Donoghue's contemporaneous notes, quoting Trump, read.

Donoghue: "That's an exact quote from the president, yes."

Trump is not being indicted for his claims about the election. He has a free speech right to say what he wants, whether there is evidence for it or not. But it is criminal to do a series of acts to create fraudulent documents to carry out a fraudulent goal. It is criminal to do so in the context of urging public officials to disobey their oaths of office.

Republicans claim many Democrats despise Trump. They are correct. Many Democrats think he is dangerous and corrupt. That would be reason to impeach him, a political venue. The indictments are now in a legal venue. The question for investigators, prosecutors, and the trial court juries is not whether Trump is dangerous, corrupt, or despicable in their minds. It is whether or not he did criminal acts. There is substantial evidence that he did.



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20 comments:

Ed Cooper said...

The "Republicans" crying Crocodile tears about the possibility (probability?) of this venal crook being the R Candidate have no one to blame except themselves. Two chances to permanently remove him from the Political landscape, to mix a metaphor, they fumbled the ball, both times, on National TeeVee to boot.

Peter c said...

If he's convicted of one of these things or even all of them, what will the justices do? Big fines? Jail? After the appeals, then what? If it's left up to the Supreme Court, what will all those Republican justices do?

Of course, Democrats would love to see him jailed for life, but I doubt any amount of jail time would happen. Maybe a HUGE fine would satisfy people and let the Republicans off the hook. Tough to say. But, all these court cases piled up next year while he's trying to get reelected will be headline news every day. Witch Hunt! Hang Him! Both sides at each others throat. Fun times.

2024 is going to be a very good year.

Rick Millward said...

Many were appalled at the 2016 win including I suspect many Republicans, although for different reasons. While Progressive hearts sank and stomachs churned at the prospect of Trump (?!) in the White House, it's not hard to believe crafty politicians like Christie were dismayed seeing they would need to do to stay in power, or close to it.

But they did it, regardless.

What did Democrats do? They hitched up their big boy pants and organized. Sure, there was lots of bitching and moaning, but they started winning elections and confronting the threat that a demagogue and a spineless party presented to the Republic.

I would hope reasonable people will believe that had Biden lost a close election, he would have conceded as well after pursuing all legal avenues. Why?...out of respect for the Democracy. The Trump criminal enterprise is a threat to everyone regardless of politics and that Republicans won't acknowledge that makes them accomplices.

Whatabout that?

Mike Steely said...

There truly is no comparison. Michael Luttig is a retired federal judge and one of the nation’s leading conservative legal minds. As he testified during the January 6 hearings, Trump, his allies and supporters are “a clear and present danger to American democracy.” We have never seen anything like this before – at least not since the civil war.

What’s truly bizarre is that even people who imagine themselves to be rational make lame excuses for them, as if all they needed were a little empathy and understanding. 'Fun times' indeed.

Michael Trigoboff said...

According to the polls, these indictments seem only to be strengthening Trump among the Republican base, and pulling all of the oxygen out of the room for the campaigns of the other Republican presidential candidates.

Do the Democrats want Trump to be the Republican nominee? Given that his opponent will be be the very weak Joe Biden, this seems like a bad bet. I think it would have been smarter to let Trump sink into obscurity, instead of focusing all of this attention on him.

Democrats will be very unhappy if their legal machinations resulting President Trump II. So will I, but at least it won’t be my fault.

Mike Steely said...

According to Michael T’s theory, it sounds like Trump’s popularity among Republicans isn’t due to their ardor for a lying, anti-democratic sociopath, but the fault of those holding him accountable for his crimes. It would be laughable if we weren’t talking about an existential threat to our republic.

Michael Trigoboff said...

Mike missed my point, as usual.

I want to avoid the existential threat of President Trump II.

I am more interested in preventing that than in “holding Trump accountable”, since efforts in that direction seem to be helping him win the Republican nomination.

Mike said...

You miss my point, as usual. It's the MAGA movement, i.e. fascism, that is the existential threat. Failure to hold Trump and his accomplices accountable for trying to overthrow the government would only embolden them and exacerbate it.

Michael Trigoboff said...

It's the MAGA movement, i.e. fascism, that is the existential threat. Failure to hold Trump and his accomplices accountable for trying to overthrow the government would only embolden them and exacerbate it.

This is not what the polls show. MAGA is being emboldened and strengthened by the Trump indictments.

Show us some polls that contradict this, if you have them. If not, what’s the basis for your claim?

Do the indictments help or hurt Trump’s chances to become president again? Don’t just provide an answer, show us your work.

Malcolm said...

“ It's the MAGA movement, i.e. fascism, that is the existential threat. Failure to hold Trump and his accomplices accountable for trying to overthrow the government would only embolden them and exacerbate it.”

That certainly seems intuitively clear Mike. Furthermore, it seems clear that any number of future autocrats will be emboldened if the trump et al prosecutors are unsuccessful in locking up trump et al.

Mike Steely said...

Michael –
Trump has been the undisputed frontrunner among Republican candidates from the start and he still is, with or without the indictments. Nothing has changed in that regard, so your argument has no merit.

What’s at stake here are election integrity and the rule of law – the foundation of our republic. I’m no more of an expert on it than you are, so I wouldn’t expect you to take my word for it. On the off chance that your inquiry is serious, I encourage you to check out this brief (about 12 minute) interview of Michael Luttig who, as I mentioned above, is one of the nation‘s leading conservative legal minds. I haven’t heard anyone spell out the issue more clearly.
https://www.pbs.org/video/america-at-a-crossroads-1692039418/

Ed Cooper said...

MT; Letting Defendant One sink into obscurity is more or less what Chamberlain was hoping circa 1938 when he declared "Peace on our time". Most of us acknowledge how that worked out for the World.

Michael Trigoboff said...

Mike,

I watched the video. Luttig made a good case that Trump committed criminal acts. I have no argument with that. But he didn’t have anything to say about the political ramifications of prosecuting Trump versus not prosecuting him.

My main interest is avoiding a second Trump presidency. From what I have seen of the polls, it might be better not to focus all of this attention on Trump via the indictments, etc. This is what the polls suggest to me. Do you think that all of this legal action will make it less likely for Trump to win in 2024? If so, what is that based on?

I prioritize keeping Trump out of the White House over “accountability“. Isn’t that the main thing? What are we fighting about here?

Michael Trigoboff said...

Ed,

World War II is not the best analogy to the current situation with Trump, unless you think the legal action against him is going to prevent him from winning the presidency in 2024. Judging by what the current polls show, the strategic bombing campaign is very ineffective.

Mike said...

That's what I thought: impervious, aka willful ignorance.

Mike said...

Don't worry about Trump becoming president. Republicans love him because they're batshit crazy, but most Americans aren't.

Michael Trigoboff said...

Do you have any objective evidence to back up that claim? Polls for instance?

Michael Trigoboff said...

I watched the video with an open mind, prepared to be convinced by something new that I didn’t already know.

Open mind and willful ignorance are not equivalent concepts, except perhaps to you.

Mc said...

Peter, is there a way to filter comments so I can avoid some in particular.
They are disgustingly disingenuous and add nothing to constructive debate.

Or, do I need to stop reading your blog altogether?

Mike said...

Michael –
I can’t imagine how you could watch the video and then claim Luttig “didn’t have anything to say about the political ramifications.” You willfully ignored the whole point of it. As he said in the interview: “All that matters is that the president will be tried for these grave offenses. Had he not, he would have made a mockery out of the Constitution and the rule of law.”

You’ve made your position clear. Judge Luttig said, “On Jan. 6, Trump and his allies and supporters declared war on American democracy.“ If you had your way, democracy would lose.