"Bernie's only real harm will come from the trash talking DNC, DCCC establishmentarians who seem bent on seeing Trump get elected. Killed by 'friendly' fire is more shameful than killed by enemy fire."
Mike Gardner, on FacebookPolitical observer Kevin Stine comments: "Conspiracy-related nonsense."
There is a persistent narrative:
If Bernie doesn't win, then the system must have been rigged, and the Democrats must have done it.
Bernie Sanders will be running to win the Democratic primary nomination. Sanders never worked toward being the consensus candidate, the easy-to-support guy in the middle. His strength was that he was not that guy. Maybe this is the year for him. Or maybe not.
Democrats should not assume left populist Bernie supporters will unite behind a Democratic candidate other than Bernie. Bernie will say the right things, but his disappointed supporters may well consider it just lip service. A significant portion of his support comes from people who envision the political landscape not on a left-right scale, but on a scale of socialist-capitalist, or system changing vs. system sustaining.
In that world there is only one acceptable candidate, Bernie. The rest are frauds, fakes, adulterators. Mike Gardner put it succinctly on Facebook: "Harsh treatment from corp[orate] dec[ocrats] does more damage" than does criticism from Republicans. Democrats are the real enemy. The muddle the debate and do their damage from the inside.
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| Kevin Stine |
"Yeah, I see some of this. They are minority of people, but a vocal minority.
Joe Biden doing well in the polls means the DNC is propping him up. Elizabeth Warren does well in the polls means the DNC is propping her up. Bernie Sanders not doing well in a poll means that it was a rigged poll, and it's a conspiracy. A bunch of people went to a Bernie rally, so obviously he's going to win. Bernie Sanders getting put third on some CNN image instead of second, means the DNC and corporate media are trying to silence him. Etc. Etc.
Truth is, the DNC has very little power. They set the debates, and make a few rules regarding non-sponsored DNC debates. The debates have been so inclusive that if you can get 1% you make the first two debates, then 2% you get two more, then 3% you get two more. We're literally going to have a debate with 12 people on the stage, and half of them have absolutely zero possibility of being the nominee. If anything, the DNC isn't exercising what little power it has. At the very least they have the top 6 debate, and then the next 6 debate.
I highly respect everyone, regardless of who they support, who puts the work in for their candidate. To me, that means the real campaign work such as phone calls, door-knocking, and putting on events. The problems I have are the conspiracy-related nonsense.
If someone wants to have negative opinions on Joe Biden, for instance, feel free. I might even jump in! But the DNC didn't push Joe Biden to run (He first ran in 1987!), the DNC isn't smothering some other campaign to support Joe Biden, and Joe Biden didn't get get some Ukrainian official fired because he wanted to stave off potential prosecution of his son."
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| Doing politics in Medford, Oregon |
Kevin Stine is reflective of the opinion of people who work in Party oriented politics. Over the decades, they have maintained the Democratic coalition. Within that coalition there are people motivated by different issues: the environment, reproductive rights, labor unions, etc. and many people in those groups were more oriented toward their issue than they were to the Democratic Party. For those issue people, the Democratic coalition was the means toward getting electoral power.
The Sanders group is different. They are in the Democratic coalition, nominally, but they see their first challenge to be changing the Democratic Party itself, because as they see it, the Party is part of the established power structure, and that itself is the problem.
Bernie Sanders really is different from Elizabeth Warren.
The fundamental question is whether Sen. Sanders speaks the truth. I think he does, and though it's taken a long time an increasing number of Americans agree. That most of the candidates echo his rhetoric is testimony to this.
ReplyDeleteHis age, his inability to play with others, and other factors, including now his health, have torpedoed his chances for the presidency. He should withdraw and endorse Sen. Warren. Perhaps he can have a role in her administration, but I guarantee it won't be chief of staff.
There are two candidates whose followers exhibit cult-like adoration: Trump and Sanders. Neither can do anything wrong. Both are victims. Everyone who criticizes them is evil. All of their political rivals are sinister. Adherence to their creed is 100%. Of course there are vast differences between the two men but their followers share a blindness that can't be healthy for our democracy.
ReplyDeleteIt’s all been said, and said some more, and at the risk of taking that poor old nag to the glue factory, I guess it’s time for one, more try: people, my much loved friends with the best of intentions, Bernie simply can’t win. I know, I know, you can actually SEE the utopia he spins. But, it isn’t feasible, and worse, he can’t get elected. Even Warren, whom I truly like, couldn’t get elected. The vast majority is centrist. Sure, you guys win in the passion clap-off, but you fall woefully short in the realistic talent portion. You want to sprint, when it’s time to walk. We have so much to undo, let us concentrate on the many horrific wrong that Trump and his ilk have foisted upon us. Show the the indies that sound, moral governance can be the beginnings of the changes that need to be made. Bernie will tell you that you can have ice cream for dinner, every night, but we know what would happen if that was the case. We need to first fill our plates with nutritious food. Dessert comes at the end, after dinner and the dishes have been done. Please consider throwing in with the entree, for now, and the ice cream will come. All of the candidates are good, so I don’t see how we could possibly fo wrong, unless our candidate can’t win. Look ahead to the long game.
ReplyDelete1. “Heath”: consider this: Dick Cheney had 4 heart attacks before running the country for 8 years as Shrub’s VP. He had a 4 way bypass and stunting procedure before serving as. VP, angioplasty and a pacemaker during his first year in office, and a heart transplant after. He’s still going strong. One mild heart attack doesn’t disqualify Bernie. When he is shown on the media, he’s often playing softball, shooting baskets or walking briskly.
ReplyDelete2. “Doesn’t play well with others”: when your program is to dismantle the corporate oligarchy, redistribute wealth, and deliver concrete material benefits to the working class, you don’t expect to be popular with the entrenched meritocracy elite.
Most progressives I know would support either Bernie or Warren. So you should drop your “Bernie should drop out” mantra Rick because: a) it ain’t gonna happen and b) it’s counterproductive to your goal of getting Liz elected if the poll numbers stay where they where they are now.
What most Ds don’t realize is that Joe is Hillary 2.0 and won’t energize activists and the young. Bernie has the ability to reach out to Obama switched to Trump voters because he’s a populist. But go ahead, stay in your centrist bubble— it’s your funeral.
And what’s wrong with “a chicken in every pot”? Worked for FDR.
What does centrist mean? Let's deconstruct. Centrist means that you are okay with multi-national/transnational corporations owning OUR legislators via their lobbyists, their campaign contributions and their control of the media. When our government is run by corporations, there is a word for that which likely your cognitive dissonance won't allow you to admit; it's called FASCISM. But you're probably good with that because you are not yet "woke," meaning you are not yet hurting enough. Perhaps you are in the minority of Americans who have a decent 401k...sure its taken a few hits...but YOU still have plenty of wiggle room...unlike that guy down the street whose kid can't go to college or who just lost his house or job. But you're a "Democrat" and you live the words to Phil Ochs' "Love me I'm a Liberal". In your safe bubble you don't understand how anyone (those "deplorables") could have voted for Trump, but we "crazy lefty" populists do!
ReplyDeleteOh, yeah...DNC...great organization. Hillary bailed them out with a million bucks and they were required to run everything by her...and back to her handmaiden Wasserman Schultz...who had to resign because a leak of internal DNC emails showed officials actively favoring Hillary Clinton during the presidential primary and plotting against Clinton’s rival, Bernie Sanders. (We "conspirasists" have long memories, Kevin). After that elite debacle and Donna Brazile's follow up failure, Lefty Keith Ellison was a shoe-in as chair...that is, until a couple of months prior to the election when Obama personally selected Tom Perez (who had backed Clinton and the TPP). No Fossil fuel money for our DNC...oh, wait...a month later oil money is good again. DCCC new rules: don't hire vendors for campaigns who work for incumbent challengers; we have to protect our incumbents because...well...they're there already, so they must be good.
Yes, you'll embrace your identity politics ("It's TIME for a woman, a person of color, blah, blah) settle for neoliberal crumbs and Republican lite candidates and sing your "any blue will do" song and you'll blame the loss on Nader or Stein or the Bernie Bros. but you'll never own your woeful ignorance, inauthentic opposition to fascism or your betrayal of working families and the New Deal. We're a hair's breadth away from full blown fascism and the privatization of everything on our commons and you're all behaving like "good Germans." That's what's not healthy for our "democracy." Lose the "mind-forged" manacles!
PS
BTW, a cardiology nurse of 30 years has written that, post stents, Bernie's team is going to have a tough time keeping up with him. If you followed him for a day, you'd get it.
Actual comment...
ReplyDelete"Harsh treatment from corp dems does MORE damage."
...not "ONLY real harm" as peter suggests, plenty of damage will be done by the donalds GOP as well.
I would have been very disappointed if you didn't add a little centrist spin. Thanks for your predictability Peter.
The far lefties are right some things, such as money in politics. But we have a complicated political system, a constitution, a Supreme Court, states' rights, etc. We also have a population that is decidedly Not Far Left Wing. But reality does not matter to these people. They are delusional to one degree or another. They are zealots, not practical people. And they would rather destroy than compromise. It is a shame.
ReplyDeleteI quoted Mike Gardner directly from his Facebook comment. I did a screenshot so I could be sure to quote him verbatim.
ReplyDeleteWow...that was some rant I wrote. The silence of the response is positively deafening.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtZfNbvsg5c
Jeff Cohen's "Corporate Coup D'Etat" movie: 6 pm, Nov. 6 at Hannon Library, SOU campus. Q&A with Jeff after.
Andy Seles
Sorry Pete, you're right. In a previous quote I did use the word "only". That was a mistake. Thank you for reminding me to avoid using absolutes. To be very clear, friendly fire is definitely not the "only" kind of attack that can damage Bernie Sanders. The donald's GOP is quite capable of inflicting great harm as well.
ReplyDelete"unknown said"
ReplyDeleteShould be, "Mike Gardner" said.
I pressed the wrong button, oops.