Thursday, September 23, 2021

Women are primates, too.


Why would women tolerate male-led governments limiting their reproductive choices?


A primatologist offers a possible answer.


Throughout much of human history men have dominated women. Men are generally larger and stronger than women, giving them an advantage physically, but women control reproduction. One way males try to control females is by limiting their reproductive choices.

Today's Guest Post is the third in a series by Hogan Sherrow, an anthropologist and primatologist. Women, like men, are mammals, and in the family of great apes. Sherrow notes that women negotiate some of the same problems that female gorillas and chimpanzees face. He is a Fulbright Scholar and has a Ph.D. in Evolutionary Anthropology from Yale University. He has studied the behavior and ecology of humans and other animals on three different continents. Hogan now consults for individuals, organizations, and campaigns, here in the Rogue Valley as Owner of You Evolving, LLC, www.you-evolving.com.



Guest Post by Hogan Sherrow


Texans and the Taliban III: The Female Paradox

In my first two contributions I discussed the stone-age laws enacted by the men of the Taliban and Texas in an attempt to control the sexual behavior and reproduction of women. I said they were displaying primal, evolutionary male behaviors that have no place in modern society. I also said giving voice and power to females, and individuals with other perspectives was our best chance to rein in bad male behavior. However, I left out what other roles women play in both situations. What do they want? How are they working to get what they want?

Some women in Texas and Afghanistan have rallied around laws designed to control and limit their behavior and reproductive options. In Afghanistan, women fully covered in traditional garb recently organized and counter-protested in Kabul, in support of the Taliban. Women rally supports Taliban They wanted traditional values upheld, including segregation of men and women in public settings. They also wanted women opposing the Taliban to stop claiming to represent all women in Afghanistan.

This may seem impossible, when viewed through a western lens, after all, how could any women support the Taliban? We need to remember, though, that in 2016, Donald Trump received 47% of the vote from white women. Pew Research.  (That number increased in 2020 with 53% of white women supporting Mr. Trump. Pew: 2020) Another Pew poll found 52% of Texas women felt abortion should be illegal in nearly all cases. Pew, abortion view by gender

Why would women support policies that explicitly restrict or attack their rights? Cultural forces are important. Religion serves to reinforce the subjugation of women and the dominance of men, further institutionalizing patriarchy. Seventy-nine percent of all adults who believe that abortion should be illegal in all cases also believe in God. Beyond religious motivations, in Texas ethnic identity strongly influences beliefs around abortion as well. 



Cultural influences don’t fully explain why the majority of white women voted for a known, admitted misogynist for President in 2020. Although direct comparisons aren't possible, it is enlightening to consider why non-human female primates support male behavior, even when it’s dangerous or goes against their apparent interests. Among over 350 non-human primates species, each with their own distinct behaviors, similar circumstances often elicit similar behaviors. For example, in some species males are twice the size of females and can easily dominate them one-on-one. This is common in gorillas, along with multiple old world monkey species. Those large males are potentially dangerous to females and their infants. Why do those females choose to mate with large, dangerous males and raise their offspring? One explanation is that large, powerful males can protect females and their infants from predators, and other bachelor males.

In chimpanzees, males bond together to defend territories, and females benefit from the resources inside those territories. As a result, males are large and very aggressive, and they regularly dominate and coerce females. Despite the frequent violence and stress experienced by female chimpanzees, most of them choose to mate with high-ranking, aggressive males, many of whom are directly responsible for the violence and stress those females experience. Chimpanzee females are attracted to bellicose males, despite the inherent risks involved because they provide territorial defense.



Both gorilla and chimpanzee females leave the groups they were born into and attach themselves to one or more males. However, the groups are open and females can leave at any time, although that carries with it its own risks namely infanticide. Both male chimpanzees and gorillas engage in infanticide, attacking and killing unrelated infants, and there is evidence that it has had a strong impact on female behavior. It is a dangerous world and primate females often must seek protection. Powerful males are one way females can find safety and females appear to cooperate with those males in order to gain a competitive advantage in the struggle to survive and produce living offspring.

In both the Taliban’s Afghanistan and Governor Abbott’s Texas, powerful men control resources and some women seem willing to support them, despite the obvious threats their sexist laws and policies present to the health and safety of all women. Combined with the cultural influences mentioned above, females adopt a strategy of accepting and supporting the domination of males as the price of surviving in a society in which dominant males are the primary danger.







13 comments:

Rick Millward said...

It's not quite apples to apples, but most research has found that primates are about as smart as a human toddler, with an estimated IQ of 25 or so.

I'll leave you to your own conclusions vis a vis Republican behavior.

Sally said...

My god there some some gigantic assumptions, presumptions, and reductio ad absurdums here.

Ed Cooper said...

It's interesting that Hogan cites only polling results from Pew, which has nearly always skewed markedly to the right. It will be White interesting to look up similar polls from Quinnipiac or even 538, to see if differently shaped polls came up with similar results.

Sally said...

Pew skews “markedly” — or at all? — to the right?

Not to my knowledge or perception.

Mike said...

It's interesting that Hogan cites only polling results from White women. In fact, Biden received 60% of the female vote in 2020. I guess the other 40% liked having a pussy-grabbing psycho for president.

Ed Cooper said...

I guess it's in ones baseline perception as to where the center is.

Sally said...

Looking forward to that anonymous post being deleted.

John F said...

I have only my experiences with women and should not to be considered "research" rather my experiences are antidotal. Growing up in a home with a war-widow mother who raised her two sons by herself and entered the workforce at a young age enabled her to provided for us with food, clothes, a home and education. She did all this while making much less than her male counterparts. I went on to college and a professional career. I met and married a woman who wanted a professional career. It is a marriage of shared resources and effort. Having children was a mutually agreed decision. Initially, in my professional career, I was in groups of men, a fraternity, clubs and organizations that were exclusively men only. These clubs and organizations were buffeted by the changing times and demographics as more and more professionally educated women entered the economic world these barriers to women fell. Still women preformed identical work while being paid less and treated by older entrenched men as either sex objects or less qualified or both. This behavior, while still present to some degree, has been greatly reduced by EEOC laws and regulations.

Women have the option to stay home and raise children but men now have that option too. But it's not uncommon to meet men in child nurturing roles, or to find men doing work that was traditionally considered women's work. The role of nature and nurture must be conceded as Sherrow points out. But ever since humankind has moved to become civilized in both urban and agrarian societies, a rule of law limiting humankind's basic impulses has been in place. The main purpose of these rules and laws are to thwart and even punish violators for the benefit of an orderly society. An aggressive male is countered by a police force and court system that will not tolerate behavior that disrupts the social contracts now in place. Like it or not, in place now is the rule of law, and the law of the land allows women a choice.

Up Close: Road to the White House said...

I deleted an obscene post written in the Curt Ankerberg style. It had the characteristic Ankerberg post, which expressed suppositions about homosexual activity. Ankerberg was found guilty of tax fraud by the Tax Court, notwithstanding his defense that he suffered brain damage. Curt Ankerberg is a repeated candidate for local office. Readers are warned that Republican and Trump supporting Ankerberg, or someone who pretends to be him, may continue to write obscene posts.

Peter Sage

Michael Trigoboff said...

Evolution leaves its traces in our psyches. Men may have impulses to be dominant. Women may be attracted to dominant men. We know how we feel. We don't necessarily know why, any more than I know why I love chocolate and hate cantaloupe.

(I had a girlfriend a long time ago who also hated cantaloupe. When asked why, she would say, "Because it tastes too much like cantaloupe.")

We can talk all we want about how we evolved we are and how civilized our values have become. But under all of that we are still animals whose motives have been molded by evolution. Ignoring that component of reality will only serve to confuse us and keep us from dealing competently with our actual natures.

Mike said...

Besides our animal nature, Humans developed human values, empathy and the ability to reason. I think some folks like to use evolution as an excuse for their atavistic behavior.

Michael Trigoboff said...

Mike, we obviously have both. Denying the animal part is a recipe for incompetence.

Mike said...

blaming our faults on our animal nature is just a corollary of "the devil made me do it."