Surprise, Surprise.
It is possible to have a sensible, informative comment thread in a political blog.
The issue: Should SNAP pay for junk food?
Jane Collins is a college classmate. She did not pursue a career that generated big money. She has first-personexperience with some of the nutrition programs in today's news. She shares her thoughts on a blog headlined "Calm down. Connect online. Rethink everything": https://alicet4.com/
Joe Yetter is a retired army physician. Like Jane, he reads this blog. He was a Democratic candidate for U.S. Congress in my rural, bright red district.
Comment by Jane Collins:
Let people make their own decisions.
One food program threatened by the shutdown was WIC, for Women, Infants, and Children. I received those benefits for a while when our kids were small. The program covers healthy options like fruits, vegetables, milk, eggs, and cereal. It also provides nutrition information to young mothers, including guidance about learning to cook. It's an excellent program.
But the problem with limiting the main food program, SNAP, to nutritious food is that poor people would not be allowed to eat like the rest of America. When your kids have to wear second-hand clothes and never get new toys, at least you should be able to treat them to something sweet once in a while.Most poor parents work. Many have long commutes. They depend on processed food to save time. Canned and boxed foods are also usually cheaper than fresh, and don't go bad so quickly.
In America, families are ashamed when they can't provide their kids with the things they want. SNAP benefits are not generous. Sometimes the only meat you can afford is hotdogs. Are hotdogs junk food? Who gets to decide? Poverty limits choices in housing, education, and so much else. At least let poor people make their own decisions about feeding their families.
Response, by Joe Yetter, M.D.
Jane, you've made the same argument to me that lots of other folk I admire and respect have made: that by limiting SNAP to nutritious food, we'd be saying (in your words),"they are not allowed to eat like the rest of America."
I disagree. I think we'd be saying: "We will pay for food that is good for you and your children. We are not going to use taxpayer money to purchase dental cavities and cardiovascular disease. You remain free to buy unhealthful food, but we will not pay for it." I'd like also for both of us to acknowledge that funds are fungible, and if we buy a buck's worth of healthful food for somebody, we may also free up a buck that can buy soda pop and potato chips for them. For me, that's a negative outcome; for those on the other side, it may be a positive. In any event, it does promote their freedom to choose.
Jane Collins' response to Joe:
Don't shame people for being poor.
I didn't buy sugary snacks or soda for my kids when we got food stamps. I also cooked from scratch, since I was a stay-at-home mother at the time, 20 miles from the nearest grocery store. Our meals were boring (turns out my husband is a much better cook) but healthy. We had a big garden for fresh vegetables and herbs, not something available to urban poor people. I canned, dried, and pickled, skills I learned from my husband's grandmother. But we were living in rural Kentucky. I saw what other people bought. My kids didn't miss what they had never had, what other kids would have, I think.
Thank goodness (and Democrats) there are debit cards instead of stamps now. People would often be poor-shamed at checkout for whatever other people judged they should not buy with "our money" (though poor people do pay state and local taxes), including fresh fruit. Note that rich people also feed their kids crap and nobody seems to be shaming them. Americans are sold terrible foods from birth, on every medium. It isn't only poor people who have bought into this corporate propaganda, or who have never learned to cook.I should also note that despite working full-time for most of our adult lives, my husband and I now live on Social Security. We qualify for only $20 a month in food stamps, but we appreciate what we get. Every little bit helps.
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8 comments:
SNAP and food stamps are vital for someone who is truly hungry. However, unfortunately there is abuse of the system, which raises the cost for everyone. I think we've all heard of the story of a derelict who buys a case of bottled water that includes bottle deposits, then the derelict empties the water in order to cash-in the bottles in order to buy drugs or booze. It happens. I've seen a lot of supposedly poor people on food stamps driving fancy cars, and buying steak and lobster. There are the truly needy, and then there are scammers who abuse the system, and the scammers are going to kill the program for everybody.
I haven't heard that story about the derelict. At ten cents per bottle, it would take a hell of a lot more than a case to buy drugs and booze. And how do you even know those people driving fancy cars and eating steak are "supposedly poor." It sounds like a made-up crock.
In my view, if it's an entitlement, in essence a form of universal basic income, then recipients should be free to use the grocery credits as they fit, including alcohol and tobacco. If it's not an entitlement, then beggars can't be choosers, and targeted restraints on purchases are perfectly appropriate and advisable.
This argument could carry over to healthcare. Should people who make unhealthy life style choices get equal access to health care? Should Medicare and Medicaid pay for treatment of lung cancer in smokers? Should they pay for orthopedic surgeries for recreational sky divers? How about medical care for drug addicts? It’s complicated
Ready-to-eat food and drink is the meal of choice for the unhoused receiving assistance benefits. Cooking facilities are often unavailable when you live unsheltered, as is refrigeration. The needs of our citizens living below the poverty line are frequently unmet. To be blunt, any processed food or drink is preferable to hunger. Making informed "good" food choices is a luxury that is not high on their priority list.
She and her husband worked all their lives and now live on Social Security. And she gets $20 per month. I know every little bit helps, but $20? I doubt anybody eligible for food stamps can afford steaks and fancy cars. That's just propaganda by right wing blowhards. I have a cousin who's on SS and gets $23/month. He doesn't buy soda and potato chips with it. Milk, butter, and bread only. Enough to stay alive.
I love how these cowards come in as Anonymous because they are afraid to state their name. Cowards all. Either put your name out there or stay away. Coward.
Anonymous:
Then you start to peel back the onion. Are their “unhealthy” lifestyles or drug addictions based on informed personal choices or ignorance? (Ivermectin anyone?) Maybe just plain recklessness? Coping mechanisms from abuse or other circumstances, like my friend with fetal alcohol syndrome? What is the duty of care by society for such people? What moral obligation? Who gets to decide?
There isn’t a perfect answer, but doing nothing is not an option if you don’t want people starving to death.
I am stopping publication of any new comments on this post. Comments on the addendum statement by the anonymous Trump supporter create unnecessary risks and potential problems, Let's move on.
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